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The woman calling Gamache at the start of the book…is she a character from a past book? I can’t seem to recall.
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I think the woman who called Gamache at the beginning of the book was new – I don’t remember hearing about her before.
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She was from a part of Gamache’s life before the books started.
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I’m so glad you confirmed this because I was racking my memory because I was convinced she had been mentioned before. There seems to be a lot of new characters from Gamache’s past being introduced this book.
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I’m not 100% convinced about the theory of Sebastien in DC and the confession. Maybe there are other parties involved, hence The Black Wolf? I’m curious to know what other readers thought about this part.
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Yes, I think you’re on to something there because there was an emphasis on this being a theory, so I think Louise has given herself an out in making this the truth. It might just be a giant red herring, setting up The Black Wolf nicely.
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I also thought the idea of Sebastien being the one who confessed was pretty far fetched.
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Spoiler alert
I enjoyed the book as always, but I thought the plot was unnecessarily complicated. Why didn’t the Abbot just tell Gamache what he knew, instead of helping to plant cryptic clues? If you had reason to believe that there was a massive, imminent threat to thousands of people, why would you rely upon two halves of a torn up recipe, a cryptic message on the back, Gamache dumpster diving for a bottle with a very hard to detect clue on it, etc.?
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Yes, I agree with you 100%. They made eye contact in the village at the start and the Abbot could’ve just spoken with Gamache then. But to be honest, I didn’t mind the ask to suspend disbelief in this book at all because I feel like the payoffs were worth it and the rest of the book was so good.
Usually I’m quite tough with stories that don’t ring true enough. For example, Robert Galbraith’s Cuckoo’s Calling. Did you read that book?
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Yes, that’s the moment I was thinking of too! I agree that there were still so many good things about the book. No, I didn’t read that one – interesting that it was JK Rowling writing under the pseudonym. I take it you didn’t find that the positives of the book outweighed that aspect for that book?
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Yes, you’re very right. Definitely some extra dramas thrown in! But I also didn’t mind and didn’t think twice on them for this book (and yes! it was hard to swallow for Cuckoo’s Calling!). When I think about The Grey Wolf, I think about the highs and almost completely forget about the plot points you’ve mentioned, but now that you’ve reminded me, I think back and can agree with your point of view completely. But they still don’t detract from the overall enjoyment for me.
Gobsmackery, I’d be curious to know what you thought about JK’s Cuckoo’s Calling, if you’re ever interested in reading it!
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No, not for Cuckoo’s Calling. I didn’t want to read any more of her books after that one. But there are many people in this group who’ve recommended her latest books very highly, so I’m tempted to go back and try again. But they’re very long reads!
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Same. It made absolutely no sense-for the Abbott nor for Jeanne Carron. It made absolutely no sense. The who.e thing with the coat! How did she even know he had a coat hanging right by the door? The don’t live there full time! Very convenient that they have a house cleaner come to the apartment then rarely use and she just happens to be there Sundays which Carn just happened to know, and it gave Carron time to have someone lift the key and….no, just all too convenient and not believable. And with so much at stake, she would have spelled it out a bit more clearly. And the Abbott, whilst in France decided on the whole chartreuse “hint” on his own, not even knowing if his niece would speak to him, forget about believe him and go along with this! Lol
I figured out pretty early on that she was not actually the bad guy Gamache was making out to be and was yelling at Gamache most of the book.
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Yes, I thought he was probably blinded by his inability to forgive Carron, given the title “The Grey Wolf” and the theme of forgiveness that is associated with it. Though I can understand not wanting to give her the time of day after what she did with respect to Daniel.
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I was hoping more of an emotional connection to The Grey Wolf. I just finished listening, and I am going to immediately start again, hoping that I will get more involved now that I don’t have to keep remembering all the various characters, and details.
Did anyone else feel a disconnect? Maybe it’s just that I looked forward to it for so long.-
I read the book and am starting to listen to the audiobook after all I’ve read about the new narrator in the other thread. I wonder if your emotional disconnect could be related to listening vs reading? I have listened to all of the other books and The Grey Wolf with Jean does punch a little differently than the others.
For me, reading the text version was incredibly emotional – more so than any of the other books, and it took me by surprise. It was the Gamache/Daniel interactions starting with Gamache closing his eyes on the couch and feeling that arm around his shoulders and opening them up to see…his son. Ugh! That really got me and made me fall in love with this book. Then the credit card. I found it incredibly moving and heartwarming. But maybe it is family relationships that make me a little emotional too, so that could be my bias.
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I appreciate your insights. Due to eye issues, and the fact that I spend my whole day working on a computer, I have listened to all the books rather than reading. I’m looking forward to my re-read. Maybe I will feel more connected as I get more familiar with the story.
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We’re in the same boat. I’ve also listened to all of the other books in the series rather than read them due to eye strain. And I also spend the entire day on a computer. Ahoy matey! I was just given the hard copy this time around for The Grey Wolf, so I took it. Somehow, I felt more connected to this one than the others. I want to say it’s because of the story and some of the character arcs, but I’m going to finish my listen and maybe I’ll have more to say about the different ways to read this one. I hope you enjoy your second read and feel that connection!
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Toying with the idea that I miss investing in the personal angst of the characters.
From learning about the Arnot case early on, through the story arc that runs from Bury Your Dead through How the Light Gets In, we are not only solving a crime, but also caught up in the personal issues of Gamache and Beauvoir and the others. In some way, all of the cases are directly affecting the characters, or affected by what they are already going through.
In this one, I feel like yes, they are racing to figure out and prevent a disaster, and the plot is great, but they feel like any law enforcement team to me. Everyone is fine in Three Pines. They’re just “comic relief” for lack of a better phrase.
Good moments: The credit cards, and AWWWW Jean Guy buying Armand new shoes.
Most deeply touching was Armand’s sadness and isolation at the end. That was heartbreaking, and I need The Black Wolf to make him okay. -
Yes, I agree with you completely about the lack of emotional connection to the rest of the Three Pines characters and how their impact on the story was mainly to provide levity. I hope that future books will see more development or back story into the various characters. I have a feeling LP will, as she has already.
And yes, I also agree with you too, about your good and most touching moments. I’m ready for The Black Wolf already.
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I also would like to see more of the other Three Pines characters – in the series, it feels like it’s been a while since there was anything substantive involving those characters, and they were so integral to the early books. And I forgot about Jean Guy bringing Armand new shoes! That was a really nice part.
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I just finished The Grey Wolf last night and wow! Louise was ambitious in scope with this book and I thought she carried it off brilliantly. I have so many unanswered questions. But what I am marvelling at is how Louise has journeyed from writing the cozy village mystery of Still Life to writing a mystery about how those in power – in government, law enforcement, criminal organizations, and even those in religious orders – will murder for more power. The way that Louise explores the nihilistic alignment between these corrupted individuals in these institutions is sadly reflected in many political systems in the world. The story seems all the more prescient after today’s election results in the U.S. But what Louise does so well in The Grey Wolf is to bring the story down to a human level, how the monstrous crime of poisoning the drinking water comes down to several individuals putting their own ambition, greed, and warped ideology ahead of the lives of others. How individuals have a choice – to be a Grey Wolf or a Black Wolf.
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How can I find the Louise Penny group that used to be on Facebook?
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There is a thread about this in the general discussion area of the forums you can visit
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I wonder why the cat and mouse games that Dom Philippe plays with Armand; they are friends so to speak. The other international travels could have taken place for the thriller aspect. I agree that the sections in Three Pines are more or less comic interludes. With the question of Daniel holding a grudge against his father over his absence, I thought that there was somewhere that Daniel was describes as being sensitive. If that is the case, that’s why I wqs able to accept the differences between father and son lasting so long. Am I right about this or not? I was surprised when the imprisonment and suicide were revealed. I am about 2/3 through a second reading, but the map found in Dom Philippe’s office puzzles me. Whose map is it and how did it get there? Is it really Charles’ map or does it belong to Sebastien or did Sebastien get it from Charles?
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I was wondering this myself about Dom Philippe. I rationalized that he does it out of concern for his friends’ and family’s safety and he probably suspects there are people in the surete, government and the church who can’t be trusted so he leaves elaborate breadcrumbs. At least that was my takeaway. But I do wonder why he didn’t simply approach Gamache when he saw him in Three Pines. Maybe he was worried about approaching him out in the open and being seen, putting Gamache in danger? As for the map – I believe it is Charles’ map as they reference the corners of the map being torn as if ripped off the wall. But I’m not sure it was revealed how the map got to the monastery in the first place so that’s a very good question! I seem to recall that we only learn that Dom Philippe instructed the other monk, Simon, to keep it safe.
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Very, very good points. I glossed over all that, but looking back now….yes. You’re right about it all.
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I think Gamache and Jean Guy need to take a power bank when they visit the monastery. Their phones always die on them. Just a thought. LOL Loved the book!
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Ha! That is so true. They definitely need to get a satellite messenger device or something. Survival gear people! 😀
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LOL!!!
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Another puzzle for me. Robert the Carthusian was placed in the confessional to hear confessions. From what I have read monks who are not priests cannot give absolution. Ergo, Robert is not a priest. So why would a priest put someone in the confessional who could not actually give absolution. This was in D.C. where he was teaching Chemistry and Biology. The interchange in the confessional was where Robert heard about the plot to poison water. Does that mean that the plot to poison the water in Canada originated in D.C.? Another puzzle: Carthusians are hermits; as far as possible, they have no contact with the outside world, unless Robert is one of the lay brothers and that is how he ended up teaching in D.C. But, it seems somewhat of a stretch to me. Third, Robert supposedly practically idolized Dom Philippe. How would that happen since Don Philippe is a Gilbertine, again an enclosed contemplative order. It doesn’t seem that they would have met. The only way I can see them having a connection is through the recording that was made of the monks of St. Gilbert. But, would that have made Robert “idolize” him? And would the individual names of the monks be on the album cover?
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Very well reasoned! I agree with everything you wrote
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Thank you.
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I think it’s explained that Brother Robert filled in when the priest on duty felt “too tired.” So it may be as innocent as that, pure coincidence and bad luck for Robert, But it does bring up the question as to who Sebastien was meeting in DC. Was that explained? i suspect there is a deeper tie between DC and the plot that’s not yet been revealed. The poison was likely stolen from the lab that is mentioned but we still don’t know who stole it in the first place and packaged it up and gave it to Parisi to be smuggled into Canada. But your questions definitely want me to go deeper with my re-read.
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I agree that Robert took the priest’s place because the priest was “too tired,” but in reality a priest would never put someone in the confessional who could not actually give absolution which was the case with Robert. I think the reason Louise Penny set up this illogical situation, is because if there had been an actual priest in the confessional, he would not have been able to reveal what he had heard because of the seal of confession.
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My guess is that is a temporary explanation and that’s where the black wolf will fill the holes and there will be a more logical explanation.
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It is certainly true that the “seal of the confessional” is considered sacred for the confessor. I am not so confident that no priest would ever send someone who was not ordained to hear confessions. Priests are human, subject to laziness and dishonesty sometimes as much as the next person. Is this a stretch and needed to move the plot forward, sure. But it is not entirely implausible to me.
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I agree that priests are human and I have seen priests fall in love, leave and marry. I have seen priests who are recovered alcoholics. But as a Catholic, I believe the priesthood comes with sacramental obligations where the priest acts in the very person of Christ. Only a priest has the faculty to hear confessions and I cannot see him wanting to cause scandal by putting someone in the confessional who does not have the power to administer this sacrament. To me, that would be as great a betrayal as violating the seal of confession. Robert should have heard Sebastien’s confession somewhere other than a confessional.
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Nancy, wow! you have raised some interesting questions. Can’t wait to hear others address this.
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I have investigated Dom Philippe some more because he seemed to be so out of character in The Grey Wolf. In A Beautiful Mystery, “he made it clear to other monasteries and to the public, that we’re a reclusive order. With a rule of silence.” This was in regard to the Gregorian chant recording. He told everyone that he was glad they were enjoying the chants, but that one recording was all they had to offer. All he wanted was peace and quiet for his community. He only went on television once about the recording. He only left the monastery once a year to recruit if a replacement was needed. He also tells Armand that he was an only child. In The Grey Wolf, we find out that he has a brother and sister. He left numerous times for public appearances to promote the recording, but did not return to officiate at his sister’s funeral. So, Louise Penny made changes to him, it seems. But the thing that makes it easier to believe his cat and mouse games with Armand, his trip to his brother for money and clothing and then to the Grande Chartreuse, to Three Pines and hiding out in The Mission comes from what Valerie Michaud told Armand: “the people of Blanc-Sabon were people who solved their own problems. It would never occur to them to go to the police for help. They would wait for the police to come to them for help.”
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Wow. This is wonderfully informative. Thank you!
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I’m impressed with your investigation!! It’s wonderful to find such a knowledgeable bunch of readers!
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I think Dom Philippe’s answer of “only child” also fits well into what Frere Simon tells Gamache in the Grey Wolf about a brother’s initiation into the Gilbertine order. They burn their personal file a bonfire after which their past no longer matters. They have a new life and new family.
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Well, this is a wonderful discussion with so many different points to consider. I am strictly a reader, never having tried an audio book. I really want to control the pace of the story and revisit sections on my terms. Many times those sections are the ones that involve the characters and their relationships, especially the characters I most enjoy. Sometimes it is a section where I am looking for the clues and connections I think I missed. This is a complex plot, maybe even convoluted at times. I also found myself looking for connections, not quite sure how I got where I was in the story. Part of my answer for now is that virtually no one could be trusted. Only Armand, Jean-Guy and Isabelle could confidently trust one another. The deputy prime minister was surely a suspect as master mind but the seeds of doubt had been sown and Armand knows well the history of Surete corruption. I am going to enjoy the search for connections on my third reading informed by some of the comments here. Finally, I share Tara Gee’s perspective on the overlap between much of this story and current events in the U.S. To be clear, I am not anticipating sabotage of a city water supply. But I do see personal greed and power grabs threatening the institutions of the U.S. government that protect the rights of us all. I kind of doubt that LP was so prescient that she anticipated the outcome of the US election but, if she had, I sure wish she had given us a heads up. Instead, she gives us a framework for moving forward in the story of the wolves and the example of Three Pines.
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Well, said, Jane. Who can we trust to do the right thing, and not be motivated by personal greed and/or vengeance? The black wolves are feasting and the pack is howling, I fear. But they’ve always existed, in every era, every civilization. And all of us have them within us, as the legend says. It’s up to us all to to keep feeding the grey, and navigating the potential storms ahead. A grey wolf is strong, wise, resourceful, resilient, compassionate, and brave. We need that, now more than ever, to rage against the darkness in some people’s hearts. It’s sometimes so much easier to throw a bone to our dark wolf, but one thing I love about these books is the example that the best of the characters show, time and time again, when they choose the grey wolf over the black, and do the right thing with compassion, love, courage, and persistence. While part of me wants to just crawl under the covers some days, I’m trying to encourage myself to not give up or give in to the darkness I see in so many places. It helps for me to revisit the Three Pines clan every so often and remind myself that goodness exists, and to try to use those beloved characters as examples of ways to move forward. Now I need to invest in a big bag of Grey Wolf Chow….
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Definitely find myself in “crawl under the covers” mode and also looking for ways to push back on the worst ideas coming out of the “black wolf” pack. The central point here is the one you make, “all of us have them (both grey and black) within us.” I am thinking of a new catch phrase, “What would the folks of Three Pines do?” I don’t think we can go wrong there.
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Gamache’s age ?? In this book he is described as “in his mid-50’s” but that seems young to me, given that Jean-Guy and Daniel are both probably in their early 40’s by now.
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Time is somewhat fluid in this series. It was stated in the early books that Armand was mid-fifties, and Jean-Guy is 20 years younger than him; and Daniel is apparently a few years younger than JG, but at least a couple years older than Annie, who is about 10 years younger than Jean-Guy! And here we are, 19 books in, and Armand hasn’t yet hit 60, so he can’t be the only one of those characters who hasn’t aged, and in my mind, the ratio is still the same. Yet his grandchildren are getting older, little by little. So there’s a sense of time passage, and subtle changes in the descriptions of the characters that indicate some time passage, but you can’t pinpoint it exactly, because then things really would not add up. But that’s OK for me. Armand needs to stay young enough to do the job that he does, and be able to be both physically and mentally on top of his game. And if he has to remain a certain age, then so does Jean-Guy in my mind, or else they will become contemporaries instead of mentor/mentee/father/son (ish) as they have always been. And if Armand and JG stay roughly the same age, then in my mind, everybody else does, too! I look at the series as one continual story on one level, yet with each book being a separate reality as well— what’s being presented in each is the reality for each. It helps that I used to love watching Star Trek, and could wrap my head around the concept of parallel universes! 🙂
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Oh, I also loved Star Trek and SG-1.
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I just wanted to share a random thought that occurred to me while I was reading this book: when the team was trying to figure out the significance of the underlined letter B in the mysterious letter that was sent from Rome, Jean-Guy absently hummed the Beatles’ song, Let it Be. It reminded me that in some of the other books, he seems to have a lot of songs floating around in his head. In All the Devils are Here, he sang a lullaby as he took a late night stroll in Paris (and was followed by Loiselle); and in The Beautiful Mystery, he hummed along with an old Beau Dommage song about a lonely seal. Of all the regular characters, he seems to be the one most likely to do well on Name That Tune! Do you think that JG has a hidden talent? And Honore has at least twice been mentioned to be singing — he learned “What Do You Do With a Drunken Sailor”, and also sang the Sesame St. version of “Letter B” (and apparently has a pretty good voice and can carry a tune)! Like father, like son?
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I have a couple of observations and questions. Did anyone else notice there were two marine biologists in the book? Charles is identified as one. But Vivienne LaPierre, the Gamaches’ friend is also a marine biologist. Is this a coincidence? I wonder if this will come into play for TBW!
Also, could there be a connection between the mention of the biological weapons disappearing from both Russia and the US, the appearance of General Whitehead in TGW, and the fact that there were Russian terrorists involved in the scheme?
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Good catch about the two marine biologists– I hadn’t thought of that!
I’ve considered about a Russian connection. I do think it’s a possibility. It depends on how widespread LP intends to make the malady! I can’t wait to find out.
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When Jean-Guy visits the missionary in DC he has a flashback to his childhood and Pere Pierre and earlier in the book Gamache wondered why Jean-Guy distrusts the clergy and church so much. Do you think there’s something that happened to Jean-Guy as a child at the school? I’m worried for him because the mention of the cane makes me suspect Jean-Guy was somehow abused as he mentions powerlessness and shame and guilt.
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I got that impression, too.
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My burning question is why didn’t Gamache just go directly to Jeanne as soon as he suspected she slipped the note into his pocket? I know he thinks of her as evil and manipulative, but as a detective it would seem a logical thing to do, regardless of your personal emotions. Anyone have thoughts on this?
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I wonder why the Canadian Prime Minister promoted Lauzon to be Deputy prime minister and gave him two portfolios that perfectly aligned with the terrorist plot? It seemed well known that Lauzon was not the most scrupulous person and was very ambitious. It seems suspicious and I wonder if there more going on there?
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All the mentions of the mafia families in Montreal and then the tie to Italy with the Parisi family and Superintendent Genori makes me think we’re returning to Italy in the next book. I also suspect the Vatican plays a role. I think the church might not be involved in any plotting but maybe there are clues and secrets that they have as to what is going on.
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I’m curious if anyone has a favourite new character who was introduced in The Grey Wolf? I think I’d like to find out more about the young reporter Shona.
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Our admins said, “Our discussion topic for today was already one of our most popular questions from the start. What burning questions, observations, or comments do you want to share? There is so much to talk about…”
I absolutely agree and found the answers to every question in the entire discussion mentioned details I had missed or failed to appreciate, perspectives that I shared or were new to me or affirmed my personal views or interests.
So, I am now looking forward to a slow and methodical reading of TGW, (3rd time for the entire book) and hope that I can do that before the next phase of the discussion come mid-January.
Thank you to everyone who ever wrote anything in these discussions.
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I’m with you! I’ve enjoyed all the comments and learned quite a bit that I had missed during my reads. Thank you, Jane, and everyone else who participated. I’m looking forward to our discussions in January!
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The parable of the two wolves is one I’ve read or heard in a few different places. I think it’s a bit weird for it to be a significant thread for Armand. I think though he’s been going after the wrong wolf.
And ***spolier alert***
The ending so abruptly as a cliff hanger(?) is not a good look for Louise. After investing the wait time and then the read or listening time in this very complex, even confusing, continent jumping, this character, that character, characters we’ve never encountered. Who ARE they?? I feel we deserve more. Better even.
I began my journey with Three Pines at Glass Houses. Also complex, but it blew me away. Such that I read backwards then forwards through all of Them. I’m glad I did not start here with this one.-
Sorry to hear that this book wasn’t quite your cup of tea, Adele. I admit there’s book in the series that I didn’t like too much (Long Way Home). I agree with you that The Grey Wolf wouldn’t be the ideal book to start the series with, as it has a lot of callbacks to earlier books that are helpful to know. And others have commented that there are a lot of characters to keep track of but I think that Louise will likely tie it all together in the sequel in a satisfying way. And, for sure, Gamache hasn’t caught the black wolf (wolves?) yet. I’m curious to find out what the villains have planned!
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Louise’s writing is always top notch, don’t get me wrong about that. I love intrigue–it’s my favorite genre so there certainly is enough intrigue here to satisfy. My concerns with this one, though, is the many red herrings. I mean how many false starts can there be in one adventure? I guess as many as the author wants, right? I just feel there are too many red herrings here that could have been combined or compressed. You know when I joined BCF here it was because I laughed out loud at the young police agent sitting outside the Gamache apartment after the break-in when she said one thing she never knew about the Chief was that he was nuts. I felt then I was in for a great story and I wanted to share that. (still missing our facebook group…) The second quote was when Armand thought after all the years looking after Jean-Guy, when had Jean-Guy began to look after him. It warmed my heart.
As for the “We’ve got a problem,” well I have to say I think it’s a cheap shot from Madame. I’m not even upset that we don’t have resolution. I don’t know even that i want to. I will bet others feel that way also.-
I agree with you, Adele, in that Louise’s writing is excellent. And also that there were moments that made me laugh out loud and others that I found to be deeply moving and incredibly heartwarming.
I think that there are definitely other readers who feel exactly as you do about the same issues. And I think that everyone’s opinion is completely valid! We all experience art, and all life events for that matter, in our own unique ways.
There have been a few posts on the home page and some good discussions on why we all might feel how we do about The Grey Wolf, and any of Louise’s books for that matter. It’s worth browsing through if you’re interested, but one of the points involved a balance between what you enjoyed most and least and how balanced or unbalanced your experience was. No one book will ever be absolutely perfect for everyone.
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That moment with Jean-Guy that you mention was one of my absolute favorites, of the entire series I think. I also liked when Isabelle was thinking about how much she, Gamache, and Jean-Guy have gone through together, and how much they mean to her, when she’s sitting at the table with them eating lunch and going over the case. I like when Louise puts these reflective moments in between all the action.
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Thank you for the list of characters. This is very helpful. Is there any way to download it?
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Not at the moment, Nancy, but we’ll look into it.
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