Home / Forums / Author Forums / Ariel Lawhon / The Frozen River / Honesty vs popularity

  • Author
    Posts
    • December 21, 2024 at 6:28 am #31314

      Martha says the townspeople dislike her. Ephraim disagrees: “They respect you. Perhaps occasionally fear you. It’s not the same thing.” (p 56) When is it better to be honest than it is to be well liked?

    • January 22, 2025 at 11:40 am #33332

      Martha tells Ephraim that the townspeople don’t like her. Martha is literate. Her literacy puts her pretty much in a class by herself since women were not to be taught to read and write. Many of the women have resigned themselves to a life of illiteracy based on the misogynistic beliefs of the time. Because of this they probably fear what they don’t understand. Martha is a midwife, a mandated reporter to the courts concerning women who have children out of wedlock. She must report to the court the names of babies’ father’s if divulged to her during childbirth. As the person most likely to help with women’s reproductive health issues I imagine Martha was privy to other information that many would prefer didn’t become public. This might account for some of the ‘fear’ Ephraim refers to when he tells Martha he thinks the townspeople respect and maybe fear her. I suspect many women envy her and wish they could be like her but they just don’t know how to build a friendship with someone as strong and accomplished as Martha. If I am going to put my life and the life of my unborn child in the hands of someone I would pick knowledge and skills over friendship every day.

      I cannot imagine that it is ever better to be liked than to be an honest person. Honesty and trust are fundamental building blocks for any strong relationship to develop and flourish. Relationships without these building blocks are very fragile and most of the time meaningless. In order to be true to myself I would not lie, be fake, cheat or pretend to be someone I am not for the sake of having friends. If that’s what it takes to be accepted and liked by people then they are not my tribe.

      avataravataravataravataravataravatar
    • January 22, 2025 at 1:18 pm #33339

      I think it is always better to be honest than to be well-liked. Martha is respected because she is capable and has gained the trust of the women she serves. When Martha catches Clarissa Stone, Peggy Bridge and Rachel Blossom gossiping about Sarah White, she reminded them that none of them had the right to speak and tells them they should apologize to Sarah. That brutal honesty caused Rachel to do the right thing and eventually saved her baby. Unfortunately, the other two lost their babies to Page’s incompetence. After Lidia North’s racist rant in which she demands more tonic for her headaches, Ephraim tells Lidia that his wife knows her mind and he will “only tell her to follow her conscience. As she leaves, Lidia tells Martha that she thought better of her. But when Martha refused to make more tonic, Ephraim says with sadness in his voice, “I did not take you for the kind of woman who would punish the innocent for the sins of the guilty.” This eventually forced Martha to be honest with herself and provide more tonic to Lidia.

      avataravataravataravataravatar
    • January 22, 2025 at 8:40 pm #33356

      There are many times when being honest is more important than being well-liked. Speaking honestly – whether with family, friends, or society at large – takes a certain kind of bravery. It comes with the risk that your truth may be rejected or poorly received, which can foster conflict or bad feelings. This is something Martha experienced on multiple occasions.

      I noted that Ephraim wasn’t always supportive of Martha’s blunt honesty. For instance, when she calls North a rapist in his own courtroom, Ephraim chastises her afterward, saying, “That was reckless, Martha. That was dangerous.” He cautions her that it is better to be prudent and measured in her speech. She reacts by shouting that she spoke the truth. But there do end up being dangerous consequences for them both, just as Ephraim said. North sends Ephraim out surveying, putting Ephraim’s life at risk as well as risking Martha being able to testify at Rebecca’s trial. So the way you deliver the truth, and when you deliver the truth, can matter too. 

      The other aspect of this question implies that if you deliver the truth you will be less liked. I think it is possible in some cases to be truthful and be liked, but I guess it depends on the truth being told. In Martha’s case, she is aware that she is “miles away from charm,” but she is a truth teller and refuses to back down from speaking her mind. I think that’s necessary in her line of work because lives are at stake – the lives of the expectant mothers and the babies. So Martha needs to be honest for their health and safety. Being liked is not necessary in this situation. Being trusted is. Outside of her midwifery, however, this bluntness can hurt people’s feelings or anger them even if she is right (I’m thinking of Lidia, Clarrisa, Peggy). Her honesty can come across as judgmental, which I think makes some of the townsfolk take offence or be fearful. So, Martha does pay a bit of a personal cost for speaking the truth, but I think that many of the townsfolk know she has their best interests at heart.

      avataravataravataravataravataravatar
    • January 23, 2025 at 7:35 am #33363

      I enjoyed rereading the entire chapter from which this quote from Ephraim was taken. It is part of Martha and Ephraim’s conversation when she returns home from viewing the body of Joshua Burgess where she gives her judgement that he was murdered, a judgement disputed by Dr. Page. Ephraim tells Martha she has “charmed” Amos Pollard who is working up the courage to court Hannah to which Martha protests that she is “miles away from charm.” She recognizes Ephraim is trying to lighten the mood, to make it easier for her to tell him what she has seen and said.

      Martha also recognizes the truth of Ephraim’s comments. She is respected because she is honest even in the face of conflict. Martha has and will choose honesty even as she fears that one of her sons may have been involved in the death of Burgess. Both Ephraim and Martha realize what may come and what it will demand of them. They recognize that the price of honesty may be more than Martha’s popularity among the people of Hallowell.

      I think Martha’s answer to honesty vs popularity is clear and she is ready for the cost. It can be very difficult sometimes to confront that choice. It is not always an obvious or clear cut choice. Popularity is more nuanced than the idea of being well-regarded. Being welcomed and included, at work, in one’s social circle or community, is a pretty basic need. And honesty may mean more than stating the facts correctly. If it means speaking one’s truth or speaking at all, the costs can look pretty steep. I hope I would choose honesty. In some ways this is a timely discussion given the social and political challenges we face.

      avataravataravataravataravatar
      • January 23, 2025 at 8:01 am #33365

        I really like your point about popularity being more nuanced because I agree there is a basic human need to want to be accepted by the group that sometimes works against being honest. It does seem timely, especially in an increasing atmosphere to accept “alternative facts” as the truth. How do you speak truth to power if there is the strong possibility of being “shunned” from society or worse?

        avataravataravataravataravatar
    • January 23, 2025 at 7:42 am #33364

      I think it’s better to be honest than well-liked, especially when the stakes are high. I remember with the Titan submersible that imploded in 2023 it came out afterwards that multiple people warned the CEO and company that the submersible needed more rigorous testing and wasn’t safe. I think the people who spoke the truth weren’t liked because they were “harming” the outcome the CEO wanted, so they were ignored. I’m sure the truth tellers did not want people to die, but I imagine their consciences are clear because they were honest and judged that speaking the truth mattered more than being liked. We see this in TFR with Ephraim when he tells North he won’t lie about the land he surveyed to profit the Kennebec Proprietors, and North tells him, “They have expectations.” Being honest when there is outside pressure to be “liked” by people in power is extremely difficult. This is the position Martha finds herself in also and why I admired her courage. If she didn’t speak out when Grace got the laudanum, she wouldn’t have been able to live with herself, and she knew it would put Grace and the baby’s life in danger. She also couldn’t lie that Burgess had simply drowned. It might have been easier to let the killers get away with it (and she had reason to do so), but it would not have been truthful. She told the truth because not only was it her responsibility as the “coroner”, but also, ultimately, for society as a whole. I think that’s also why Martha is so adamant that North be held to account. It wasn’t only because it would help Rebecca get justice, but it was because he was a risk to the women in society at large as well as to the men because he used his power and wealth to harm others.

      avataravataravataravataravatar
    • January 23, 2025 at 8:41 am #33366

      I don’t know if respect and likability are diametrically opposed to one another. I think there are many times that people can be honest and be well liked. However, there’s always the risk that being honest might make you less likeable, especially if it casts someone else in a negative light or challenges their belief about themselves. Often people don’t want to accept the truth if it is an inconvenient truth. If it’s a truth that’s not pleasant to hear, people would prefer not to acknowledge it. Martha, given her role as a midwife, is front and center for a major life event. And she is challenged to share what she knows honestly, but it’s not always what people want to hear. Her assessment that Burgess was hanged, not drowned, and her testimony in Rebecca’s case, are both inconvenient truths for several of the townsfolk, especially North.

      avataravataravataravatar
    • January 23, 2025 at 9:58 am #33382

      During the reading of this book, I was giving to thinking a lot about diplomacy, especially since in these times we are faced with so many crises that demand it. I have decided that it’s a tough job, being a good diplomat. A dance of pushing an idea forward without insulting the other party and closing off further willingness to listen. Knowing how far to go, and when to retreat; how to phrase things just so, to get one’s point across without destroying the opportunity for further progress, or indeed to protect oneself from reprisals. When to show strength, and when to show willingness to compromise. I admire a true diplomat who can speak the truth and manage to get results without alienating others. I think they’re rare, though. I wish I had their gifts. Martha wasn’t particularly diplomatic, but she was honest, and that would garner respect. Because the truth was sometimes ugly and inconvenient, it didn’t always make her popular, yet I think it made her the better person to be true to herself, and I think respect is more important than popularity in the long run. Being unpopular can make for a lonely life, and in some instances, can lead to a dangerous life. Martha was fortunate to have loving family around her, and I’m sure that many of the families in her community valued her and considered her a friend, so she may have had more protection than some, whether she realized it or not. She ultimately made a particularly dangerous enemy, but not one so powerful that she couldn’t eventually overcome him, thankfully. Not everyone would have the same advantages, but I think that everyone has to look within themselves and decide which (popularity vs honesty) they value more. We all have a survival instinct, so there are times when keeping silent might be the wisest choice, but at the end of the day, we must be able to live with our own consciences, too.

      avataravataravatar
      • January 23, 2025 at 4:43 pm #33396

        I agree with your thoughts Susan. Well said.

        avataravatar
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.