Home / Forums / Author Forums / Louise Penny / Book 17: The Madness of Crowds Discussion Questions / The Madness of Crowds: What did you think of it and why?
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Amy Bennett.
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March 25, 2024 at 6:31 am #30752
I have been drawn back to this book again and again. I think it is because the emotions in this one are so raw and human but so is the compassion. One person’s life and work have been spent justifying an unjustifiable act. Another was spent trying to erase his own complicity in the same kind of horror. And there’s a whole overlying question of what do we want as a society, the cold calculations of eugenics, the rage of Jean-Guy in response, or something in between. In the end, the murder has its own cry for love and acceptance. And as for me, there is really no place I’d rather be than in the company of our friends from Three Pines, surrounded by too much food and crackling fires and children celebrating a New Year’s tradition. I like the questions and the fierce love in this one.
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March 25, 2024 at 6:32 am #30753
Definitely agree and well said. I appreciate the way LP integrates emotions into the story and into figuring out what happened. They are not a distraction from ht plot but part of understanding it.
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March 25, 2024 at 6:32 am #30754
I have enjoyed every book in the series and this was no exception. Three things I particularly liked: LP writes a story where I do not foresee the ending and continue to find clues when I re-read it even after I know the ending, she continues to develop characters of increasing depth and complexity (in this book, Jean-Guy and his anguished struggle with Annie’s and his decision to continue a pregnancy knowing the fetus had a chromosomal anomaly and “the Asshole Saint” come to mind but so do Ruth and Isabelle) and, finally, I appreciate how LP weaves historic and contemporary events into her writing. I recall previous comments about people struggling with the inclusion of examples of research abuses and graphic accounts of violence against women in Africa but I thought they added to the complexity of the story and characters. I specifically appreciate how LP acknowledges the COVID 19 pandemic and its impacts; it would have been odd to move on with life in Three Pines without any consideration of such a profoundly impactful period of time.
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This is one of my favorites. Penny tackles a very uncomfortable theme post pandemic, who does humanity prioritize as saving? Who (the big picture who) determines Mercy Killing, and Genetic Cleansing, and the execution. Gamache is asked if he thinks Abigail’s movement will die with her arrest. He doesn’t believe so because she opened Pandora’s box and released a different epidemic. Hoever this is one I’ve reread several times because of the deeper themes of heroes (Gamache, Vincent, Haniya) and do our heroes ever have an awareness of their hubris.
My opinion is that Penny uses a rule of three in many of her books starting with Three Pines and the Three Graces. Often these are very subtle i.e., Clara, Ruth, and Myrna; Armand, Jean Guy, and Isabelle; Maria, Paul, and Idola, and the Saints/sinners Abigail, Vincent, and Haniya. -
March 25, 2024 at 6:33 am #30756
It is one of my favorites. I have adapted the rainbow sign with ça va bien aller as my mantra. Unfortunately, she was too quick to anticipate the end of the pandemic. As a psychologist, I also appreciated the expose of the eugenics movement. I was definitely not taught this in grad school, but some of the early psychologists who developed IQ tests participated in the forced sterilization of women ( by administering the tests-in English -to women who didn’t speak English and then concluding that they were sub-standard.) Read Imbeciles by Adam Cohen for more information on this. Google Buck v Bell and it’s impact.
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March 25, 2024 at 6:34 am #30758
I was reading reviews of Cohen’s book! I will definitely read it. Mark Warner, the governor of Virginia in 2002 made a public apology 75 years later. (The 75th anniversary of United States Supreme Court’s ruling in Buck v Bell.) Oliver Wendell Holmes wrongly insisted, “The nation must sterilize those who sap the strength of the State to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind.” His brutal opinion contributed to an 8 to 1 majority to uphold Virginia’s sterilization law. The young girl was neither “feebleminded” nor “Epileptic.” She had been raped.
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March 25, 2024 at 6:34 am #30760
a shameful part of our history. At the Nuremberg trials, the doctors claimed that they were following our lead. I am not proud of the early “ groundbreaking “ psychologists.
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March 25, 2024 at 6:35 am #30761
the book is very well written ( Adam Cohen was a member of the Harvard law review, I believe that he was the head, but I may be mistaken). I listened to it, my only criticism is that he repeated biographical information on many of the principals. He probably assumed, perhaps rightly, that people forgot stuff. Chernow did that in Hamilton too. Another very long book.
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So much going on in his one; a tackling of so many thought-provoking subjects, with a common theme of how humans react to situations and stressors, and how one can also lose one’s humanity along the way. And if one loses one’s way, can one ever truly atone, as in Gilbert’s case? I’ve read this one a few times and keep coming up with new things to think about. Any one of the issues that arose — Robinson’s theories; Cameron’s; Haniya’s experiences; the murder; the things done and not done during the pandemic; what is brave and what is right; facts vs. truth; the choices a parent must make to protect their children; Jean-Guy’s guilt and confusion as he tries to navigate being the parent of a child with special needs, and so much more—- would have given me plenty of food for contemplation. It was almost too much at one time. But I enjoyed the journey, and learned a lot, as usual. My favorite parts were grounded by the dynamics of the main characters that I love— my favorite scene was Armand and Jean-Guy’s confrontation in the bistro, and how wonderfully Armand handled it. My heart went out to both of them, and I loved that they could have this talk with love and caring, without judgment, and Armand could be both boss and father-in-law and still do the right thing. And what a great observation — “You don’t look anything like me…but you’re still my son.” And when JG suddenly stops seeing Idola’s Down Syndrome features, and just starts seeing his daughter— awww. I will always love these character-driven scenes the best.
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March 25, 2024 at 6:35 am #30763
Madness of Crowds is the book I took to Iceland to have LP autograph, so it is obviously just about my favourite. As a midwife, I spent 20 years counselling people on genetic screening, and it is a challenge to do it properly and without influencing the decision. I so appreciated the honest and heartbreaking struggles that Jean-Guy had coping with the consequences of their decision to continue the pregnancy with Idola — reality is often so much harder than a theoretical future. I sympathize with his agonized wish that someone had just made the decision for them (because people do ask “what would you do”?) LP is generous in her narratives around this, and in this novel and the previous All the Devils balances the discussions around choice with respect to abortion, discontinuing life support (as with Stephen) and medically assistance in death (which is legal in Canada and has been for several years). At same time, the terrible pain that is caused when people abandon their duties or lose their moral centre, whether it is long-term care homes in Quebec or unethical research as with Ewan Cameron, is clearly depicted. Many may know that the military had to be called in to help with the long-term care centres in Quebec during COVID, and many of them ended up with PTSD.
I loved the pairing of the two Asshole Saints, each of them for different reasons, and that at the end of the book they become the kind of friends who quarrel with each other, but can share their requests for forgiveness for what they have done. Very moving.-
March 25, 2024 at 6:35 am #30764
Agree about Haniya and Gilbert, This book, more than the previous ones, captures the complexity of the “asshole saint” in both Haniya and Gilbert in a way that makes one think about how much a single individual can embody both the admirable and the reprehensible and how difficult choosing one over the other can be. I found their eventual ability to ask for and accept a measure of forgiveness very moving.
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March 25, 2024 at 6:36 am #30765
We’re back home in Three Pines and this book disgusts some, convinces some, is unthinkable to some. I found her 17th book fascinating and I thought a lot about free speech, hate speech, evil ideas, misinformation, and the dark side of humanity. I love thought provoking books!
The pandemic is over and it will soon be a New Year to look forward to with vaccines to protect the public from another pandemic. Will life return to pre-pandemic life (with no masks and social distancing)? Armand is assigned to protect a speaker and managing the crowd at a nearby University Gymnasium. The speaker is a Professor of Statistics that supports the theory that in order for the nation to recover and thrive after the pandemic, the government should mandate the euthanizing of the weak and would relieve the nation from having to subsidize nursing homes, invalids, anyone with defects that require extra care.
Louise got the idea and title from an 1841 book called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. It’s an early study of crowd psychology from witch hunts to the tulip mania by journalist Charles Mackay. The Mackay book is about what happens when fear and gullibility meet greed and power and it seems to be true today. -
March 25, 2024 at 6:38 am #30766
This book was disturbing on several levels. I know that there is not a black and white dichotomy for right vs. wrong, but many of the actions taken in this book seemed to be “wrong” even if done for the right reasons. I don’t think Louise was trying to say, “It’s ok to kill under certain circumstances,” but it’s human nature to protect family, loved ones, and those who can’t protect themselves. When Jean Guy was faced with the “suicide by cop” situation, you could feel the strength it took to not shoot.
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March 25, 2024 at 6:38 am #30767
It was interesting, and it got into some really hard issues. Not my favorite, but important on many levels.
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